Fred McGriff
Originally drafted by the Yankees in 1981, the Crime Dog had a full 18 year career in major league baseball, spanning six teams. Originally traded to the Blue Jays from the Yankees for Dale Murray, McGriff established himself as a top slugger for many years to come (imagine McGriff with the short porch at Yankee Stadium, but they had another up and comer named Don Mattingly). He was also part of the blockbuster trade of 1990, traded along with Tony Fernandez to the Padres, for Joe Carter and Roberto Alomar (a trade that set the basis for the upcoming Blue Jay Championships).
McGriff finished in the top 20 of the MVP voting, eight times, finishing as high as fourth. He is a five time all-star. He is a three time Silver Slugger Award winner who finished in the top four in homeruns seven times, from 1988 to 1994. He is career .284 hitter, with 493 home runs, 1550 runs batted in and 1349 runs scored. But, is Fred McGriff a Hall of Famer?
McGriff has more career home runs than nineteen Hall of Famers with at least 300 home runs. McGriff has scored more runs than twenty Hall of Famers with at least 1200 runs scored. McGriff has driven in more runs that twenty-eight Hall of Famers with at least 1300 RBIs.
Andres Galarraga
Originally signed by the Montreal Expos as a free agent in 1979, The Big Cat had a nineteen season career that spanned eight teams. He played with the Expos until 1991, when he was traded to the St. Louis Cardinals. Galarraga is best known for his years in Colorado and his amazing recovery from cancer for his return to the Braves after the 1999 season.
Galarraga was a five-time all-star, two-time Gold Glove winner, a two-time Silver Slugger Award winner, finished in the top sixteen of the MVP voting seven times and once led the National League, posting a .370 batting average in 1993. He is a career .288 hitter, with 399 career home runs and 1425 runs batted in. He scored 1195 runs through his career and hit over .300 nine times through his career. But, is Andres Galarraga a Hall of Famer?
Andres Galarraga has less career home runs, runs batted in and runs scored that Fred McGriff. However, Galarraga was a better fielder throughout his career as noted by the Gold Gloves. He also played all but 48 games of his career at first base, while McGriff was a DH for over 100 more games through his career. On the negative side, Galarraga did lead the National League in strikeouts four times.
Roberto Alomar
Originally signed as a free agent by the San Diego Padres in 1985, Roberto Alomar was one of the most dominant second baseman in baseball for over a decade. Alomar was part of the trade between the Padres and the Blue Jays (see McGriff above) and has two World Series rings to show for his efforts. Alomar was a twelve-time all-star, starting nine times between 1991 and 2000. He won eleven straight Gold Glove Awards between 1991 and 2001 and four Silver Slugger Awards. He finished in the top 20 in the MVP voting six times, and placing as high as third. He was in the top 7 in batting average five times and was in the top 10 in runs scored six times (including a first place finish in 1999). He was in the top 10 in the American League for hits and stolen bases. For years, there was no better second baseman than Roberto Alomar.
Through his seventeen year career, Roberto Alomar had a .300 career batting average. He has over 500 career doubles and 210 career home runs. Alomar has scored 1508 career runs and had over 2700 career hits. Alomar also had nearly 500 career steals. Between the ten year period from 1992 and 2001, Alomar scored 100 runs six times, had over 25 doubles each of those ten seasons, hit over .300 nine times and never meade more than 14 errors in an individual season. But, is Roberto Alomar a Hall of Famer?
Roberto Alomar has more career hits than eleven second basemen in the Hall of Fame, and none of those Hall of Famers do not have a career batting average above .300. Only two of those Hall of Famers have more runs batted in than Alomar and only three have more stolen bases. When compared to Ryne Sandberg, the most recent second base inductee, Alomar has more career hits, a higher career batting average, more runs batted in, more runs scored and more stolen bases. Alomar has more All-Star appearances and more Gold Glove Awards than Sandberg as well.
Barry Larkin
Barry Larkin is one of the last of a dying breed. In today’s world of free agency, very few players can play 19 seasons with only one organization. Since the 1980s, very few players have devoted themselves to one organization. Cal Ripken Jr., Tony Gwynn, Brad Radke and Derek Jeter are the exception rather than the rule. Larkin started his Reds career as the number four overall pick of the 1985 draft and making his debut in August 1986.
Barry Larkin played almost 2200 games for the Reds as their shortstop. Before retiring after the 2004 season, Larkin has 2340 hits, 441 doubles, 198 home runs and 960 runs batted in. His career batting average is .295. Larkin is a twelve-time all-star (starting five times), was the 1995 MVP (finished four other times in the top 20), won three gold gloves and won the Silver Slugger Award nine times. Larkin has won approximately 30 percent of all National League Silver Slugger Awards, with his last award in 1999. Larkin finished in the top 10 in batting and runs four times in his career and placed in the top 10 in hits three hits. He is a career .338 hitter in the postseason and committed over errors in a season only once. But, is Barry Larkin a Hall of Famer?
In the midst of Barry Larkin’s career, the shortstop position changed. In the mid to late 90s shortstops such as Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Nomar Garciaparra and Miguel Batista changes the position from defensive to offensive. But, Larkin was a strong shortstop before it became the norm. He has a higher career batting average than Robin Yount (who played his entire career with one team). He has only 120 hits less than The Wizard of “Oz”zie Smith. If you compare Larkin’s stats to other Hall of fame shortstops, he is superior. His batting average is better than thirteen Hall of Famers, more runs batted in than twelve others and more home runs than all Hall of Fame shortstops other than Cal Ripken Jr, Robin Yount and of course, Ernie Banks (who also stayed with one organization). Larkin has one World Series ring and was considered one of top shortstops in the National League during the early to mid 90s.
These are the only four potential candidates for the Hall of Fame for those eligible in 2010. Are any of them potential first ballot Hall of Famers?
Here is the list of the First Ballot Hall of Famers:
Hank Aaron, of, 1982
Ernie Banks, ss-1b, 1977
Johnny Bench, c, 1989
Wade Boggs, 3b, 2005
George Brett, 3b, 1999
Lou Brock, of, 1985
Rod Carew, 2b-1b, 1991
Steve Carlton, p, 1994
Dennis Eckersley, p, 2004
Bob Feller, p, 1962
Bob Gibson, p, 1981
Tony Gwynn, of, 2007
Reggie Jackson, of, 1993
Al Kaline, of, 1980
Sandy Koufax, p, 1971
Mickey Mantle, of-1b, 1974
Willie Mays, of, 1979
Willie McCovey, 1b, 1986
Paul Molitor, 3b-of-dh, 2004
Joe Morgan, 2b, 1990
Eddie Murray, 1b-dh, 2003
Stan Musial, of-1b, 1969
Jim Palmer, p, 1990
Kirby Puckett, of, 2001
Cal Ripken Jr., inf, 2007
Brooks Robinson, 3b, 1983
Frank Robinson, of-dh, 1982
Jackie Robinson, if, 1962
Nolan Ryan, p, 1999
Mike Schmidt, 3b, 1995
Tom Seaver, p, 1992
Ozzie Smith, ss, 2002
Warren Spahn, p, 1973
Willie Stargell, of-1b, 1988
Ted Williams, of, 1966
Dave Winfield, of, 2001
Carl Yastrzemski, of-1b, 1989
Robin Yount, if-of, 1999
When you look at the career statistics of the four players listed above and compare them to the overall statistics of the payers listed above, I just cannot see any being elected in their first ballot. A first ballot election is to be for an all-time great, like Rickey Henderson this season’s nominee. The player should not be a good player, or even the best for a few years. He needs to be an all-time great. Look at the list above, these players are all-time greats.
In fact, for the players eligible in 2010, Roberto Alomar is the only true Hall of Famer. He was the absolute best at his position for an extended amount of time and when you compare his lifetime statistics versus the current Hall of Famers, Alomar’s stats add up. His Gold Glove Awards and steady fielding ability allows Alomar to stand out when compared to those currently enshrined.
Now, before we put Alomar into the Hall of Fame, we need to take a quick peek into his character. In today’s world, we have started to look at the character of the player before his is allowed to join those in Cooperstown. Mark McGwire, who should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer, was not elected due to character issues. Is Jim Rice still not yet elected to the Hall of Fame because of his issues with the press? On September 27, 1996, Roberto Alomar spit in the face of a Major League Umpire, John Hirschbeck. Alomar was just called out on strikes and went ballistic at Hirschbeck. Some stories say that Alomar was suckered into the action, but in many eyes Alomar’s five-game suspension did not fit the crime. This action may prevent Alomar’s enshrinement and push it back a few years.
Personally, I feel that the Hall of Fame voting has been lenient. The Hall of Fame should be reserved for those players that set themselves apart from all others. I have an issue with “compilers” being elected. McGriff and Galarraga are compilers. McGriff hit .300 only four times in his career and never hit more than 37 home runs in a season. He does have 2500 hits and had not scored 1500 runs. Similarly, Hall of Famer David Winfield never hot more than 37 home runs in a season, has 465 career home runs, and hit over .300 only four times in his career. Winfield is the perfect example of a “compiler” who was elected for his numbers only. Based upon these numbers, McGriff will get on one day because at some point, people will realize that McGriff simply has better numbers.
Congrats to Roberto Alomar and Fred McGriff a few years ahead of time as you two will become enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Andres and Barry may have to wait for the Veteran’s Committee to vote them into the Hall of fame in the many years to come.
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Nice article.
I think Alomar is a lock and McGriff will face an uphill struggle but ought to get in, while Galarraga and Larkin had Hall of Fame potential but didn’t quite get there.
Agree that none will get in on first ballot.
One question, why shouldn’t “compilers” get in? To my mind, unlike annual awards (MVP, Cy Young, etc), the Hall recognizes career accomplishments – and to my mind longetivity consistency over a career are part of what the Hall is meant to be enshrining. If it were so easy to be productive over a long career, then the McGriffs of the world wouldn’t be ranked so high in career numbers. The reality is it isn’t easy and this merits recognition in my view.
Maybe “never” get in is a tough assessment. When I think of a Hall of Famer, I get a certain vision in my mind. Certain compilers just do not merit being considered an all-time great. Let’s say there was a player that played 20 years and hit an average of 25 home runs a year. That would be 500 career home runs, a lock for the Hall. However, what if his career batting average was .225? What if Pete Incaviglia hit 500 home runs with his batting average? Would he be a Hall of Famer?
But, I should rethink my stance on that as time goes on.
Agreed, nice article, but I also agree with jabalong about the merits of the “compilers”. McGriff hit 20+ homers in 15 seasons and 30+ in 10. Pretty impressive consistency. Also keep in mind that he was regarded as one of the “clean” players of his era, which greatly deserves recognition. If you can lose votes for being linked to steroids, you should surely be able to gain from being clean. Lastly, he did have 34 home runs in the 94 strike season. Surely he would have hit more than 40 which would have also put him over 500.
With Rice getting in this year it looks like Dawson will get in for sure next year. I don’t know about anyone else though.
Congrats to Ricky and Jim!
Good article, but you seem to have forgotten a player who was the greatest ever at his position, and possably the best hitter of the 90’s(OK, maybe it’s Thomas, but still). C’mon, you can get it. Think think think . . .
As jabalong said “the Hall recognizes career accomplishments – and to my mind longetivity consistency over a career are part of what the Hall is meant to be enshrining” wel i thing Galarraga should be pick he was a great person got the longest homerun ever(but then they changed the distance, i was there so im sure), also he faced cancer and was elected comeback of the year two times……..geting into the hall of fame is not just numbers.(also he have a great personality)
Barry Larkin should be a lock for the HOF. I’m not sure if he should make it on the first ballot or not, but I followed his career and he was as good as Ozzie Smith defensively and Larkin hit with more power. The only talent that Smith demonstrated that Larkin didn’t was Smith’s back flip. That’s good for a gymnast, but not important for a baseball player.
Good article. I do have to disagree about Barry Larkin. He should be a lock when you compare him to other SS in the HOF.
I alos think Robbie should be a first ballot. He is flat out superior to the latest inductees Morgan and Sandburg. The only other 2B that is a lock is – believe it or not – Jeff Kent.
I am writing this after the announcement earlier today that Andre Dawson was the only player on the ballot elected to the HOF. I was extremely surprised that Alomar didn’t make it. He made one big mistake, apologized for it, served a penalty, and moved on. Babe Ruth once PUNCHED an umpire. Juan Marichal once took a bat to an opposing team’s catcher’s head. Tris Speaker was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Ty Cobb was, well, Ty Cobb. So before people start holding the character issue over Alomar’s head, remember that plenty of other HOF’ers have had plenty of character issues of their own. Alomar should have been a first ballot HOF’er.
[...] A refresher on the new candidates can be found here. [...]
played almost 2200 games for the Reds as their shortstop. Before retiring after the 2004 season, Larkin has 2340 hits, 441 doubles, 198 home runs and 960 runs batted in. His career batting average is .295. Larkin is a twelve-time all-star (starting five times), was the 1995 MVP (finished four other times in the top 20), won three gold gloves and won the Silver Slugger Award nine times. Larkin has won approximately 30 percent of all National League Silver Slugger Awards, with his last award in 1999. Larkin finished in the top 10 in batting and runs four times in his career and placed in the top 10 in hits three hits. He is a career .338 hitter in the postseason and committed over errors in a season only once. But, is Barry Larkin a Hall of Famer?
In the midst of Barry Larkin’s career, the shortstop position changed. In the mid to late 90s shortstops such as Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Nomar Garciaparra and Miguel Batista changes the position from defensive to offensive. But, Larkin was a strong shortstop before it became the norm. He has a higher career batting average than Robin Yount (who played his entire career with one team). He has only 120 hits less than The Wizard of “Oz”zie Smith. If you compare Larkin’s stats to other Hall of fame shortstops, he is superior. His batting average is better than thirteen Hall of Famers, more runs batted in than twelve others and more home runs than all Hall of Fame shortstops other than Cal Ripken Jr, Robin Yount and of course, Ernie Banks (who also stayed with one organization). Larkin has one World Series ring and was considered one of top shortstops in the National League during the early to mid 90s.
These are the only four potential candidates for the Hall of Fame for those eligible in 2010. Are any of them potential first ballot Hall of Famers?
Here is the list of the First Ballot Hall of Famers:
Hank Aaron, of, 1982
Ernie Banks, ss-1b, 1977
Johnny Bench, c, 1989
Wade Boggs, 3b, 2005
George Brett, 3b, 1999
Lou Brock, of, 1985
Rod Carew, 2b-1b, 1991
Steve Carlton, p, 1994
Dennis Eckersley, p, 2004
Bob Feller, p, 1962
Bob Gibson, p, 1981
Tony Gwynn, of, 2007
Reggie Jackson, of, 1993
Al Kaline, of, 1980
Sandy Koufax, p, 1971
Mickey Mantle, of-1b, 1974
Willie Mays, of, 1979
Willie McCovey, 1b, 1986
Paul Molitor, 3b-of-dh, 2004
Joe Morgan, 2b, 1990
Eddie Murray, 1b-dh, 2003
Stan Musial, of-1b, 1969
Jim Palmer, p, 1990
Kirby Puckett, of, 2001
Cal Ripken Jr., inf, 2007
Brooks Robinson, 3b, 1983
Frank Robinson, of-dh, 1982
Jackie Robinson, if, 1962
Nolan Ryan, p, 1999
Mike Schmidt, 3b, 1995
Tom Seaver, p, 1992
Ozzie Smith, ss, 2002
Warren Spahn, p, 1973
Willie Stargell, of-1b, 1988
Ted Williams, of, 1966
Dave Winfield, of, 2001
Carl Yastrzemski, of-1b, 1989
Robin Yount, if-of, 1999
When you look at the career statistics of the four players listed above and compare them to the overall statistics of the payers listed above, I just cannot see any being elected in their first ballot. A first ballot election is to be for an all-time great, like Rickey Henderson this season’s nominee. The player should not be a good player, or even the best for a few years. He needs to be an all-time great. Look at the list above, these players are all-time greats.
In fact, for the players eligible in 2010, Roberto Alomar is the only true Hall of Famer. He was the absolute best at his position for an extended amount of time and when you compare his lifetime statistics versus the current Hall of Famers, Alomar’s stats add up. His Gold Glove Awards and steady fielding ability allows Alomar to stand out when compared to those currently enshrined.
Now, before we put Alomar into the Hall of Fame, we need to take a quick peek into his character. In today’s world, we have started to look at the character of the player before his is allowed to join those in Cooperstown. Mark McGwire, who should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer, was not elected due to character issues. Is Jim Rice still not yet elected to the Hall of Fame because of his issues with the press? On September 27, 1996, Roberto Alomar spit in the face of a Major League Umpire, John Hirschbeck. Alomar was just called out on strikes and went ballistic at Hirschbeck. Some stories say that Alomar was suckered into the action, but in many eyes Alomar’s five-game suspension did not fit the crime. This action may prevent Alomar’s enshrinement and push it back a few years.
Personally, I feel that the Hall of Fame voting has been lenient. The Hall of Fame should be reserved for those players that set themselves apart from all others. I have an issue with “compilers” being elected. McGriff and Galarraga are compilers. McGriff hit .300 only four times in his career and never hit more than 37 home runs in a season. He does have 2500 hits and had not scored 1500 runs. Similarly, Hall of Famer David Winfield never hot more than 37 home runs in a season, has 465 career home runs, and hit over .300 only four times in his career. Winfield is the perfect example of a “compiler” who was elected for his numbers only. Based upon these numbers, McGriff will get on one day because at some point, people will realize that McGriff simply has better numbers.
Congrats to Roberto Alomar and Fred McGriff a few years ahead of time as you two will become enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Andres and Barry may have to wait for the Veteran’s Committee to vote them into the Hall of fame in the many years to come.
Last 5 posts by Russ Blatt
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Comments
Nice article.
I think Alomar is a lock and McGriff will face an uphill struggle but ought to get in, while Galarraga and Larkin had Hall of Fame potential but didn’t quite get there.
Agree that none will get in on first ballot.
One question, why shouldn’t “compilers” get in? To my mind, unlike annual awards (MVP, Cy Young, etc), the Hall recognizes career accomplishments – and to my mind longetivity consistency over a career are part of what the Hall is meant to be enshrining. If it were so easy to be productive over a long career, then the McGriffs of the world wouldn’t be ranked so high in career numbers. The reality is it isn’t easy and this merits recognition in my view.
Posted by jabalong | December 16, 2008, 9:23 pm
Maybe “never” get in is a tough assessment. When I think of a Hall of Famer, I get a certain vision in my mind. Certain compilers just do not merit being considered an all-time great. Let’s say there was a player that played 20 years and hit an average of 25 home runs a year. That would be 500 career home runs, a lock for the Hall. However, what if his career batting average was .225? What if Pete Incaviglia hit 500 home runs with his batting average? Would he be a Hall of Famer?
But, I should rethink my stance on that as time goes on.
Posted by Russ Blatt | December 24, 2008, 12:29 pm
Agreed, nice article, but I also agree with jabalong about the merits of the “compilers”. McGriff hit 20+ homers in 15 seasons and 30+ in 10. Pretty impressive consistency. Also keep in mind that he was regarded as one of the “clean” players of his era, which greatly deserves recognition. If you can lose votes for being linked to steroids, you should surely be able to gain from being clean. Lastly, he did have 34 home runs in the 94 strike season. Surely he would have hit more than 40 which would have also put him over 500.
Posted by mmbtu | January 12, 2009, 2:57 pm
With Rice getting in this year it looks like Dawson will get in for sure next year. I don’t know about anyone else though.
Congrats to Ricky and Jim!
Posted by Joe Majerus | January 12, 2009, 5:59 pm
Good article, but you seem to have forgotten a player who was the greatest ever at his position, and possably the best hitter of the 90’s(OK, maybe it’s Thomas, but still). C’mon, you can get it. Think think think . . .
Posted by duder | January 13, 2009, 9:35 am
As jabalong said “the Hall recognizes career accomplishments – and to my mind longetivity consistency over a career are part of what the Hall is meant to be enshrining” wel i thing Galarraga should be pick he was a great person got the longest homerun ever(but then they changed the distance, i was there so im sure), also he faced cancer and was elected comeback of the year two times……..geting into the hall of fame is not just numbers.(also he have a great personality)
Posted by David Monroy | June 7, 2009, 4:02 pm
Barry Larkin should be a lock for the HOF. I’m not sure if he should make it on the first ballot or not, but I followed his career and he was as good as Ozzie Smith defensively and Larkin hit with more power. The only talent that Smith demonstrated that Larkin didn’t was Smith’s back flip. That’s good for a gymnast, but not important for a baseball player.
Posted by Mike from Florida | July 17, 2009, 7:30 pm
Good article. I do have to disagree about Barry Larkin. He should be a lock when you compare him to other SS in the HOF.
I alos think Robbie should be a first ballot. He is flat out superior to the latest inductees Morgan and Sandburg. The only other 2B that is a lock is – believe it or not – Jeff Kent.
Posted by Viper | July 24, 2009, 4:36 pm
I am writing this after the announcement earlier today that Andre Dawson was the only player on the ballot elected to the HOF. I was extremely surprised that Alomar didn’t make it. He made one big mistake, apologized for it, served a penalty, and moved on. Babe Ruth once PUNCHED an umpire. Juan Marichal once took a bat to an opposing team’s catcher’s head. Tris Speaker was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Ty Cobb was, well, Ty Cobb. So before people start holding the character issue over Alomar’s head, remember that plenty of other HOF’ers have had plenty of character issues of their own. Alomar should have been a first ballot HOF’er.
Posted by Bill Miller | January 6, 2010, 9:33 pm
[...] A refresher on the new candidates can be found here. [...]
Posted by Inside Pulse Sports | MLB Roundtable: HOF Discussion | January 7, 2010, 2:33 pm
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Mark McGwire should be stripped of every record he illegally obtained and banned from entering the Baseball Hall of Fame for life.
Actually, Barry Larkin COULD do a backflip. He just didn’t because it was his buddy Ozzie’s thing. Ozzie got Barry to do it once with him at a Reds/Cards game. I remember seeing them replaying it on the news in Cincy.